MY Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

Fox News Republican “Forum” (Debate)

• Posted by Beth on January 6th, 2008 filed in 2008 election, Candidates, Fred Thompson, John McCain, Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney, Politics, Rudy Giuliani   debate · New Hampshire · Republicans    

I hate live-blogging with a passion, but I’m gonna sorta wing it.

Loved that pissing contest between Mitt & Huck, especially “You make up facts faster than you talk.” It’s the truth, isn’t it? Heh.

I’m glad to see Fred talking about Social Security; it needs fixing, and his remark that “nobody makes the case” (cough W cough) for what needs to be done is exactly why it unfortunately wasn’t fixed earlier in Bush’s Presidency.

Oh, brother…Huckabee and his populism. Excuse me while I throw up with the class wars. I’m not sure if Millionaire Mitt should be the one to slap that populist crap down, though–although it’s hard to argue with the knowledge of someone who’s made $200+ million on his own.

God, please, someone, destroy that FairTax nonsense since Chris Wallace mentioned it. Yes, we need IRS reform (or abolition), but not not not with the unFair Tax, “pre-bates” be damned. Giuliani is avoiding the subject altogether, instead talking about how he reduced poverty and welfare in New York City.

OMG, yay–Fred’s talking about a “flatter” tax. Yay! Flat Tax is the way to go! Like he said, what’s good about the Fair Tax is 1) reform, and 2) simplicity, but that’s it. I’m sorry, why the hell isn’t every conservative supporting Fred when he talks about taxes? Hello?

Oh no. They’re going to talk about “change.” I had enough of that last night during the Dems’ debate, thanks. Blech.

McCain mentions the change in Iraq, and that’s the most significant “change” we’ve seen in a very long time. No arguing with him on that–and it really, really matters. Mitt says someone from Washington can’t change Washington; I don’t really agree. I do think John McCain knows how to implement reform–he’s made it a focus of his political career, including with McCain-Feingold (regardless of how much we don’t like it, it was “change”). Of course, I think Mitt could have a reforming effect as well; he’s done it in the real world.

And…once again, Fred says the right thing. It’s not about “change,” it’s about leadership.

Yeah, Rudy! Hillobama wants “change” in the form of tax increases and retreat and defeat in the war. Damn right.

Break time, time to celebrate RON PAUL NOT BEING THERE! Yay!!! This round’s on me!


Okay, we’re back. Blah blah blah about ads. Next?

McCain’s talking about foreign policy; I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: he’s got a depth of knowledge and expertise that cannot be matched in this area. Not just with the “surge,” either, although that’s what everyone talks about. I remember I was annoyed when he was pushing for Rummy to leave, but as it turns out, he was right–and the kind of right that has saved lives.

Huckabee on foreign policy: “Duh?” Okay, he didn’t say that. LOL. “I’ve sat down with heads of state.” Uh, so have Jenna and Barbara Bush. So has Chelsea Clinton. So? But now he’s talking about leading Arkansas…and Chris Wallace isn’t letting him off so easy. Commander in Chief when there’s a pattern of “mistakes?” Answer: Blah blah blah heavy boots on the ground standard conservative talk blah blah. Next?

Now Giuliani, and how McCain said a “great” 9/11 response does not equal foreign policy experience and how he hasn’t been to Iraq (he hasn’t? WTF?). Threw Arafat out of the UN 50 celebration, threw Castro out. Love that. Gave back the Saudi check after 9/11–it is notable that he did that, while Ron Paul won’t refuse donations from Nazis, eh?

Fred! rolling out his foreign policy credentials–Senate Intelligence Committee, etc. Disagrees with Huckabee about closing down Guantanamo (for real, yo) and about our foreign policy being “arrogant.” No doubt.

ZING! Fred says “didn’t Ted Kennedy endorse your health plan?” to Mitt. Mitt: “Absolutely!” UGH. Stop it. This health care business is the reason why Mitt’s below Fred, McCain, and Giuliani for me.

McCain on foreign policy again: four former Secretaries of State endorsed him, and he plans to improve human intelligence capabilities (thank God) for the hunt for Bin Laden. Says it’s not just his Senate experience that counts, but his life experience as well.

Trouble spot: Now they’re talking about immigration and “amnesty” with McCain. Okay, you know what? He speaks the wrong language with illegal immigration. He’s not speaking to conservatives, he’s speaking to liberals. I think he’s tougher than Romney, Giuliani, and Huckabee on immigration, but listening to him talk about “compassion” and “God’s children” but not “the rule of law” (as Romney does) just kills him with conservatives. And see, Romney’s hammering him with “amnesty,” and McCain doesn’t answer it how conservatives need to hear it. I don’t know if he’s trying to court Hispanic and moderate voters, but it’s not helping him.

Huckabee on immigration, lots of platitudes and “the children.” Yawn. “It’s tough,” he says. OMG, he’s getting pissy with Mitt now for asking a question. Chris Wallace asks the same question Mitt did. Heh. Good grief. Wallace just asked about a high school kid who’s illegal–what happens when they graduate? Move the whole family back to Mexico? No, he says, let him stay. WHAT? So now it’s not just if you’re born on US soil, it’s if you’re schooled on US soil? He’s not even thought about his own plan, apparently. Or I hope that’s just an unthinking answer.

Rudy: “every single one of us, including Ronald Reagan, has made mistakes with the illegal immigration issue.” The most important thing is “who has the best plan.” Okay, I’ll buy that. He’s talking tough, like McCain should do, but I’m not sure his plan is better than McCain’s.

Fred on immigration: “Are we encouraging the next generation to come illegally” with our current policies? Of course. “What does it say about a nation when exportation of people is an economic necessity?” They need economic reform and improvement: “The long-term best interests of our country are in the same long-term best interests of their country,” meaning economic growth in Mexico so people won’t “have to” leave.

Break time again, time to celebrate RON PAUL NOT BEING THERE some more! Yay!!! This round’s on me too!

What? They’re back with talk about negative ads again? Whatever. Wasting my time! Good point about Iowa, though–I think Mitt lost Iowa because of it, too. I’m tired of the negativity that I get in campaign emails, myself. Really tired of it. (Take note, Romney campaign–please.) Mitt says there’s a difference between “attack ads” and pointing out opponents positions and the differences. Right, but when it’s the majority of your message, it comes off badly. I can’t speak to the teevee ads because I’m not in Iowa or New Hampshire, but the email? Ugh. 90% negative. Come on, Mitt, I *want* to support you–tell me why your health care plan shouldn’t scare the bejesus out of me and why I should vote for you, not against someone else.

Now Mitt’s talking about the “flip-flop” issue, and he’s answering it well by being honest about it (unlike the other guy from Massachusetts).

Wallace asks Rudy if he has “too much baggage.” Points out that stories about him have been corrected by the (spit) New York Times (spit), and says he made a mistake by not vetting Bernard Kerik thoroughly. “I’ve made my share of mistakes, when I do, I own up to them, and I don’t make them again.”

Uh oh, the age question to McCain. He’s pushing 72, and will be the oldest person inaugurated. Eh, he doesn’t seem like an old man to me. Age is so not an issue with him, come on. Even Huckabee says, “I’ve met his mother, 95 years old. All the things we can criticize McCain on, I wouldn’t even go there.”

Closing arguments time from everyone. I won’t recount them all because I’m sure there will be plenty of video.
Rudy: very good.
Fred: very good, but not as smooth as Rudy.
Huckabee: social conservative talking points, dull.
Romney: smooth, touches on everything, positive language, says “change” too much for my liking. I’d be happy to never hear the word “change” again during this election season.
McCain: talks about leadership, keeping the country safe and secure, re-energizing the party and independents. Very good, as you’d expect.

I don’t pick winners, I pick my own winners. I’d say they all did well except Huckabee. What happened to the entertaining Huckabee of the earlier debates? He’s getting testy and looking tired. I do wish Fred were a little “smoother,” so to speak, but the fact that he appears to be just winging it unprepped does have the effect of also making him look as though he has a deep level of knowledge on the issues, that he’s spent a lot of time thinking about them. Still, it’s teevee, and not everyone is a FredHead. Yet. ;)

Frank Luntz with the focus group: Yikes, they weren’t impressed with Fred. One guy says he’s got a good thought process but doesn’t communicate well. They do not like Mike Huckabee, and say he brings too much religion into his speech. They did like Mitt Romney, a lot, actually. Some minds were apparently changed. “It was a very good night for Mitt Romney,” Luntz said.

About the debate itself: Finally, the debates are getting worth watching! I liked last night a lot–Charlie Gibson did a great job moderating. Chris Wallace did as well, and we got the bonus of…NO RON PAUL! Yay! But really, fewer people on the stage makes a difference, especially when they aren’t restricted to a stupid time limit and aren’t given asinine questions. Let’s see more like this, please!

UPDATE: Conservative Belle also live-blogged the debate, and did a much more thorough job than I did, thankfully. :)

By the way, if for some reason you care about my commentary from last night’s debates, I was over at Ace’s in the comments (GOP thread here, Dem thread here). Y’all don’t talk enough here. ;-P